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Changing the Name

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Edible14
(@edible14)
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Joined: 9 months ago
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Topic starter  

Players also seem to be behind the name change, since they apparently agreed to wear the alt road blues with "Cleveland" across the front and no team name. Lindor spoke a bit about that being intentional.

 


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The Prosecutor
(@pros)
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Joined: 11 months ago
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Here's a well thought out response from a Native American who is a long time Indians fan and former member of the House of Representatives.

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2020/07/honor-american-indians-by-keeping-the-indians-team-name-and-forging-a-true-partnership-mickey-edwards.html

He wants to keep the name but have the franchise help Indians by providing some financial assistance.  Like your uncle said, Willie, native Americans are more concerned about unemployment and addiction than the nicknames of sports teams. 

Your uncle was also concerned about "remembering the heritage of our people". That's why I suggested statues of Indians which depict them in a positive way. 

I live near a reservation where the tribe makes a lot of money through casino operations. They built a museum which depicts the every day life of their tribe before the Europeans arrived. They used archeology and historical accounts to make it as realistic as possible. They don't want things to be "as if they never existed". The museum shows they existed and how they lived. The Cleveland Indians could do something like that on a smaller scale at the Prog or a nearby site.  

Major league baseball and the other pro leagues should set up Native American relations offices, staffed with native American employees, where they interact with Indian organizations. In exchange for the use of names like  the Chief, Braves, Indians, etc they should financially support Indian organizations dedicated to lifting Indians out of poverty and addiction. 

I would go along with Mickey Edwards, who knows way more than I do about it. Francisco Lindor, who's a Puerto Rican, doesn't speak for native Americans. He's also a mercenary who will be playing for another team in a few months. I'm not a native American, either, but I was an Indians fan long before Lindor was born and will be long after he's gone, so I feel I have the right to post an opinion. 

 


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Marty Taber
(@mtaber)
Rookie League baller
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 25
 

@pros

i think they could easily keep the naive American theme by calling themselves the Shawnee, a native tribe prominent in Ohio in colonial times. They could have Tecumseh as part of their emblem, as he is recognized as perhaps the greatest of all native leaders in the early 19th century.  He was Shawnee. We shouldn’t just wipe out all traces of native life. 


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Nubballguy
(@nubballguy)
Draft Prospect
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 4
 

Hi all, quite late to this conversation but this is something I’ve taken quite an interest in and have been kicking around in my head for quite a while. 

Appreciate all the commentary posted here. Prior to catching up with what you’ve all posted, I’d been in favor of using the Tribe moniker as the official team name as I thought it an ode to the team’s history but updated to a positive, inclusive imagery. 

I really like the suggestions posted here about a realistic depiction of a Native American(s) at the ballpark to accurately reflect the culture and lift up the bravery of the native peoples in their heritage as well as the ideas to connect philanthropically with Native American groups. Of course, having them at the table to present their wants, needs and input are absolutely vital to the process I think, particularly since it’s a complex issue with seemingly many points of view even within their own community! 

Lastly, I was super impressed with the suggestion of the name Buckeyes, particularly when it’s provenance with the Negro league team name was explained! The fact that it touches on the obvious pride the city of Cleveland should have with its pioneering leadership with the first AL black player and first black manager should definitely be uplifted and emphasized! Great, great suggestion! And with the same commitment to collaboration with the community by the organization as suggested above it makes for a compelling case. As to the confusion with the college football team I think that can certainly be worked around - I live in the NYC area where there is a lot of enjoyment in expressing the local football team as the “NY football Giants.” So the Cleveland Buckeyes vs the Ohio State Buckeyes could certainly work. Unless of course there might be some copywriter/trademark issues involved. 

So here I sit, compelled to two different candidates, liking them both. I would be happy if both those suggestions moved forward in the decision making process.

 

Again, appreciate the discussion all! 


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BZRD
 BZRD
(@bzrd)
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 11
 

How about the Cleveland Zeroes.  They can remove the "INDIANS" from the scoreboard and let the line score do the rest!


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Rocky55
(@rocky55)
Draft Prospect
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 9

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Marty Taber
(@mtaber)
Rookie League baller
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 25
 

@rocky55

How about the “Cleveland Life Forms”?


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Edible14
(@edible14)
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @rocky55

Cleveland Indians Change Name To 'Cleveland Genderless Sports Players With No Discernable Racial Features Or Specific Ethnic Background' | The Babylon Bee

 

Babylon Bee is *the worst*

I'm happy the team is changing it. There's a lot of hand wringing about them keeping the name for 2021... I think that's actually the right move. 

They can't get a good new logo, word mark, and uniforms trademarked and made up in just a year. These things take time. The Los Angeles Clippers rushed a logo/jersey change when Ballmer took over the team... and the results were and are *hideous*. Whatever team name they're choosing, they need to not rush the process. There's also contracts with merchandisers and such. 

The other option is to go with an empty signified a la the Washington Football Team. That always struck me as a tantrum of "if I can't have my favorite name, we'll have NO NAME". In general, copying the conduct of Dan Snyder is never a good idea. 


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The Prosecutor
(@pros)
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Posted by: @mtaber

@pros

i think they could easily keep the naive American theme by calling themselves the Shawnee, a native tribe prominent in Ohio in colonial times. They could have Tecumseh as part of their emblem, as he is recognized as perhaps the greatest of all native leaders in the early 19th century.  He was Shawnee. We shouldn’t just wipe out all traces of native life. 

I read the ownership wants to get totally away from anything related to Native Americans. IOW, it won't be the Cleveland Tribe or the Cleveland Shawnees.

I suggest the Cleveland Cougars if they want something pretty generic. It's alliterative and falls into line with the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions, Jacksonville Jaguars, and the Florida Panthers in the big cat category. 

I suppose Condors would be another possibility - it kind of falls into the Falcons, Eagles, and Hawks birds of prey category. Condors feed on dead carcasses, though, which is probably not the image we're going for. And they're ugly as hell. 

Animals are pretty safe as mascots - they never object to their likenesses and names being used. 

If they want something connected to the area that has nothing to do with Native Americans then I guess Lakers would fit, but there's already a high profile team with that name. I can't see a nickname related to steel production because of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I read through the Wikipedia entry on the city and nothing jumped out at me. I'm not crazy about the Cleveland Forresters. 

It's not really necessary to have a nickname that has anything to do with the area. Neither the pro football or basketball teams have nicknames that have anything to do with northern Ohio. 

There are some teams with common bird names like the Cardinals, Orioles, and Blue Jays. Maybe the Robins or Starlings? Eh....no. Cleveland Starlings has kind of a nice ring but starlings are considered pests and are not attractive like the beautifully colored Cardinals, Blue Jays, and Orioles. 

There was an ABA team called the Pittsburgh Condors and we do have buzzards that show up every year in Hinckley, but buzzards are turkey vultures and they eat roadkill, too. 

We have the Browns and Cincinnati has the Reds so we could go with the Cleveland Blues or Blue Sox. 

Cleveland was founded on shipping so how about Longshoremen? Nah - too long, wouldn't fit on a jersey or in a headline. 

I've made my decision - the Cleveland Indy Ens. 

 

 

 


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Rocky55
(@rocky55)
Draft Prospect
Joined: 9 months ago
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I like the Prosecutor's idea, "IndyEns". I was thinking the Cleveland Casino Owners, or possibly the Archers. To distance from the "Native Americans" the org could license Sterling Archer's image for the uni.

 

In an article I read on the subject, two of the objecting N.A. groups had the word Indian in their names.

 

 

I also like the Babylon Bee's idea, carrying the current mania to the point of absurdity. A short trip indeed.


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Edible14
(@edible14)
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Topic starter  

I read a good book, and if you're as much of a history nerd as I am I think it warrants a good recommendation. The book is "Rowdy Patsy Tebeau and the Cleveland Spiders". It is basically a history of that team. It's an interesting thing to read right now, because a lot of what the Spiders were is just something that doesn't exist in baseball anymore. 

The Spiders were essentially a very rough team, even by the very different standards of the 1890s. Tebeau and his teammates were notorious for intimidating umpires, injuring players with dirty play, outright bush league shit, and lots of near riots both at home and on the road. They were also one of the worst drawing teams of the league, and the author blames a few things here. One would be the refusal of local government to allow baseball to be played on Sundays (a lot of church politics!), but also the style of baseball was just not broadly appealing. It was considered too wild and rough for a lot of observers. Other teams that pulled similar tactics included the Baltimore Orioles (version 2.0), who were also folded after 1899. Tebeau was the captain, and several of these incidents involved the entire team getting into police custody. 

Louis Sockalexis played for the Spiders, and developed a deep drinking problem that manifested on the field. At one point he falls over drunk in the middle of a game. This is in the middle of the 1899 debacle. Which of course is where the team's owner had bought the St Louis Browns and transferred all the best players over. The 1899 team was so bad that other teams refused to come to Cleveland, fearing the gate receipts couldn't make it worth the travel cost. They finished 20-134, and were folded out shamefully. 

I bring this all up to say that it's not exactly a great history to celebrate. They never won a pennant, they never were particularly well regarded in Cleveland, and ultimately brought a lot of shame to the city. If they're ultimately going to go with that team name, they'll have to work a bit of PR magic to address that history.

I still strongly prefer them honoring the Negro Leagues team, the Buckeyes. 


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