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Roster Musings  

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Edible14
(@edible14)
Short-A newcomer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 50
06/28/2020 11:31 pm  

I like them giving some time to guys who need the development. With Hankins and Espino being on, I'm surprised Lenny Torres isn't on it yet - a big upside prospect who didn't get a lot of time last year. I suspect if they were going to fill out the 60 they would add him along with Giljegiljaw, Rocchio, Ka'ai Tom and Jared Robinson. But removing guys off the 60 means putting someone on waivers, so holding onto spots makes some sense in case you get a weird run of injuries at one particular position (e.g, both Roberto Perez and Sandy Leon get hurt, now you need another catcher so you add Giljegiljaw and Rupp. Or if Santana and Bauers got hurt and you need someone else who can play 1B besides Bradley)


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Petes999
(@petes999)
Draft Prospect
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 7
06/29/2020 4:14 am  

Another reason for spots left open is any trades will need to be from 60 player Pool and be placed onto 60 player Pool...We have dead weight on 40 man roster but for prospects ... either traded ... or traded for, you need to add them in the Pool. Thus, if Lindor or a Santana/Hand is traded due to slow start or cash strapped owner, what you get back must be fitted into the 60 man Pool, one way or another (if 40 man issues).


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Willie Hood
(@willhoo99)
Member Moderator
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 182
06/29/2020 6:19 am  

Some players are limited by travel restrictions in their native countries. Oviedo has been working his way back from a back injury. Part of that has been work to get into better conditioning. He's highly regarded within but not a priority development at this time. 


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Willie Hood
(@willhoo99)
Member Moderator
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 182
06/29/2020 6:33 am  
Posted by: @petes999

Another reason for spots left open is any trades will need to be from 60 player Pool and be placed onto 60 player Pool...We have dead weight on 40 man roster but for prospects ... either traded ... or traded for, you need to add them in the Pool. Thus, if Lindor or a Santana/Hand is traded due to slow start or cash strapped owner, what you get back must be fitted into the 60 man Pool, one way or another (if 40 man issues).

Sure a deal could happen bc of financial limitations- budget restrictions- on the FO. But, don't buy the recent reports (ESPN???) that they are having a fire sale. Some members of the media like to stir controversy or just double down on their old commentary. For example, this offseason when it was a foregone conclusion Lindor was getting traded to the Yankees or the Dodgers. Truth / reality escapes some "journalists" in light of increased views.

That said, there is a possibility theyll make some moves motivated by finances. That may come in the offseason as CA seemed to hint at in a recent comment. Frankly, I dont think its wise to deal in a flooded buyer's mkt. Either anticipate that and strike boldly or put together a package of assets that no one else can match.

There are a variety of ways this could go including seeing the Tribe make deals that cut both ways. What I mean there is they could sell and buy at the same time. Keying in on a young emerging player or quality veteran elsewhere that might be had.


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GSon
 GSon
(@gson)
Rookie League baller
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 41
06/29/2020 7:38 am  
Posted by: @willhoo99
Posted by: @petes999

Another reason for spots left open is any trades will need to be from 60 player Pool and be placed onto 60 player Pool...We have dead weight on 40 man roster but for prospects ... either traded ... or traded for, you need to add them in the Pool. Thus, if Lindor or a Santana/Hand is traded due to slow start or cash strapped owner, what you get back must be fitted into the 60 man Pool, one way or another (if 40 man issues).

Sure a deal could happen bc of financial limitations- budget restrictions- on the FO. But, don't buy the recent reports (ESPN???) that they are having a fire sale. Some members of the media like to stir controversy or just double down on their old commentary. For example, this offseason when it was a foregone conclusion Lindor was getting traded to the Yankees or the Dodgers. Truth / reality escapes some "journalists" in light of increased views.

That said, there is a possibility theyll make some moves motivated by finances. That may come in the offseason as CA seemed to hint at in a recent comment. Frankly, I dont think its wise to deal in a flooded buyer's mkt. Either anticipate that and strike boldly or put together a package of assets that no one else can match.

There are a variety of ways this could go including seeing the Tribe make deals that cut both ways. What I mean there is they could sell and buy at the same time. Keying in on a young emerging player or quality veteran elsewhere that might be had.

A quick comment about the LA Dodgers attempted/rumored trade for Lindor.. that was nixed in favor of this incredible pair of deals with the Twins and Red Sox.. The Dodgers were staring down the barrel of possibly three of five of their starting pitchers going away/injured. Quite frankly, the Dodgers had good reason for lacking trust in Kenta Maeda as a bona fide starting SP. Relying on a raw or near raw rookies(Dustin May/Julio Urias) didn't sit well.. So, when the opportunity to get David Price along with a solid/spectacular middle of the order bat came along, the Dodgers went that way, instead. In fact, the return to the Dodgers ( Betts & Price along with a dump truck full of cash from Red Sox, Brusdar Grateral, the left handed OF bat of local boy (Hinckley, Ohio) Luke Raley and with the Twins Comp B pick that has became Clayton Beeter a flame throwing SP in the 2020 draft all for bad back Verdugo, Jeter Downs, Conner Wong, Jair Comargo & Maeda may go down as one of the best if not thee best deal of the past season. The Indians would have had to give up either Kluber or Carrasco along with Lindor to compete with this deal.. That's where the Indains valuation of the expected return for Lindor may have pushed the Dodgers away from the Indians. IMHO, the Dodgers would have been just as happy with our guy(s).. and it would have saved a BUNDLE of cash.. 

 

The rumors regarding potential deals with the Yankees would have had some voracity if it wasn't for the exclusion of truly talented players from the deal. The Indians FO was not and, hopefully remain uninterested in flawed/soon to be rejected failures disguised as NYY future stars.. 


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DetDawg
(@detdawg)
Low-A dreamer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 194
06/29/2020 9:05 pm  
Posted by: @edible14

I like them giving some time to guys who need the development. With Hankins and Espino being on, I'm surprised Lenny Torres isn't on it yet - a big upside prospect who didn't get a lot of time last year. I suspect if they were going to fill out the 60 they would add him along with Giljegiljaw, Rocchio, Ka'ai Tom and Jared Robinson. But removing guys off the 60 means putting someone on waivers, so holding onto spots makes some sense in case you get a weird run of injuries at one particular position (e.g, both Roberto Perez and Sandy Leon get hurt, now you need another catcher so you add Giljegiljaw and Rupp. Or if Santana and Bauers got hurt and you need someone else who can play 1B besides Bradley)

As I understand it, a player can be moved off the 60-man roster as long as the roster isn't full, which explains why teams have left openings.  But, if it is, moving a player of the 60-man requires that the player be traded, waived, released or outrighted - unless the player is injured, comes down with Covid-19, or something strange occurs (suspension, retirement, et al).

If 3 or more players at the Alternate Site come down with Covid-19, then MLB reserves the right to allow the removal of those players from the Player Pool without requiring their release.

Some of these complex roster rules are spelled out in the Fangraphs article linked below.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/four-things-we-learned-from-60-man-player-pool-day/

 


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The Prosecutor
(@pros)
Rookie League baller
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 44
06/30/2020 9:52 am  
Posted by: @detdawg

As I understand it, a player can be moved off the 60-man roster as long as the roster isn't full, which explains why teams have left openings.  But, if it is, moving a player of the 60-man requires that the player be traded, waived, released or outrighted - unless the player is injured, comes down with Covid-19, or something strange occurs (suspension, retirement, et al).

That's not how I read it. Fangraphs says there's no way a player can be moved off the 60-man without giving every team in the league a shot at him.

"Basically, once a player is in the pool, the only way they can be removed from it barring injury and few other roster oddities is to allow every other team to get a shot them, either through waivers or free agency. If you see someone named to the 60-man player pool, there’s a pretty good chance they will be the club for the duration of the season."

My impression is the reason spots were left open is so teams can have the flexibility of adding players from their own organization later if they have a run of injuries or illness at a particular position. 

 

 


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DetDawg
(@detdawg)
Low-A dreamer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 194
07/03/2020 2:51 pm  

Deshields tests positive and is in quarantine.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29405507/indians-delino-deshields-jr-tests-positive-covid-19


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DetDawg
(@detdawg)
Low-A dreamer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 194
07/04/2020 8:58 pm  

The Dodgers David Price opts out of season, voluntarily giving up his $32 million salary.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29410895/dodgers-pitcher-david-price-says-play-season


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Willie Hood
(@willhoo99)
Member Moderator
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 182
07/04/2020 9:03 pm  

Mike Trout may opt out too. His wife is pregnant and due with their first child in August. He said he's undecided. He's been wearing a mask and taking precautions on the field and in drills.


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DetDawg
(@detdawg)
Low-A dreamer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 194
07/04/2020 11:11 pm  

I don't begrudge anyone who elects to make this potentially life or death decision, particularly those players with children or, in Trout's case, players whose wives are expecting.  Fortunately, many of these players can afford to forego 1 year's salary.  I sympathize with those who don't have that financial freedom.


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Petes999
(@petes999)
Draft Prospect
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 7
07/05/2020 6:21 am  
Posted by: @detdawg

I don't begrudge anyone who elects to make this potentially life or death decision, particularly those players with children or, in Trout's case, players whose wives are expecting.  Fortunately, many of these players can afford to forego 1 year's salary.  I sympathize with those who don't have that financial freedom.

And for some, it’s about keeping your job or not. Yet, if done right, you can minimize risks.

If done right, playing baseball isn’t a great risk if you can keep 45 people (30 players + 4 umps + staff) in a bubble. Yet, trying to tell a 25 year old to stay in a hotel room isn’t that feasible. Some players will get it. Yet, if a team hires 10 20 year olds to run errands (grocery store, restaurants, etc.), it could be safer than going out into the world yourself.

And, it’s no surprise that Price opted out. Was thinking the teams who bought salaries for Bettis or other prospects really made out with shorten seasons.


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DetDawg
(@detdawg)
Low-A dreamer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 194
07/05/2020 8:55 am  
Posted by: @petes999
Posted by: @detdawg

I don't begrudge anyone who elects to make this potentially life or death decision, particularly those players with children or, in Trout's case, players whose wives are expecting.  Fortunately, many of these players can afford to forego 1 year's salary.  I sympathize with those who don't have that financial freedom.

And for some, it’s about keeping your job or not. Yet, if done right, you can minimize risks.

If done right, playing baseball isn’t a great risk if you can keep 45 people (30 players + 4 umps + staff) in a bubble. Yet, trying to tell a 25 year old to stay in a hotel room isn’t that feasible. Some players will get it. Yet, if a team hires 10 20 year olds to run errands (grocery store, restaurants, etc.), it could be safer than going out into the world yourself.

And, it’s no surprise that Price opted out. Was thinking the teams who bought salaries for Bettis or other prospects really made out with shorten seasons.

You may be able to minimize risks, but these players are being placed in a position of doing things that are inherently more risky that what you or I are forced to do.  They will, day in, and day out, be in large groups of people, whether it's playing games, sitting in a dugout, mingling in a clubhouse, going to restaurants, etc, all things that none of us have to do.  And those that choose to do, have been the cause in the spike in infection rates.  So, players can do their best efforts to stay safe, but they will become infected at higher than normal rates because of what they do.  And because of this, some players have, and will, opt out of playing for the sake not only for themselves, but for their families.

Because of the situations these players, coaches, and umpires will face, I have previously opined that I don't think MLB will be able to successfully complete its season.  I hope I'm wrong, because I love the game, but I don't think it can be done.  All it takes is one or two teams that have to quarantine half their team or close their clubhouse to be sanitized.  What will be the respone of MLB?  Will they keep playing, or opt to play with 28 or 29 teams? Or 26 or 27?

 

 

 


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Petes999
(@petes999)
Draft Prospect
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 7
07/05/2020 10:36 am  
Posted by: @detdawg
Posted by: @petes999
Posted by: @detdawg

I don't begrudge anyone who elects to make this potentially life or death decision, particularly those players with children or, in Trout's case, players whose wives are expecting.  Fortunately, many of these players can afford to forego 1 year's salary.  I sympathize with those who don't have that financial freedom.

And for some, it’s about keeping your job or not. Yet, if done right, you can minimize risks.

If done right, playing baseball isn’t a great risk if you can keep 45 people (30 players + 4 umps + staff) in a bubble. Yet, trying to tell a 25 year old to stay in a hotel room isn’t that feasible. Some players will get it. Yet, if a team hires 10 20 year olds to run errands (grocery store, restaurants, etc.), it could be safer than going out into the world yourself.

And, it’s no surprise that Price opted out. Was thinking the teams who bought salaries for Bettis or other prospects really made out with shorten seasons.

You may be able to minimize risks, but these players are being placed in a position of doing things that are inherently more risky that what you or I are forced to do.  They will, day in, and day out, be in large groups of people, whether it's playing games, sitting in a dugout, mingling in a clubhouse, going to restaurants, etc, all things that none of us have to do.  And those that choose to do, have been the cause in the spike in infection rates.  So, players can do their best efforts to stay safe, but they will become infected at higher than normal rates because of what they do.  And because of this, some players have, and will, opt out of playing for the sake not only for themselves, but for their families.

Because of the situations these players, coaches, and umpires will face, I have previously opined that I don't think MLB will be able to successfully complete its season.  I hope I'm wrong, because I love the game, but I don't think it can be done.  All it takes is one or two teams that have to quarantine half their team or close their clubhouse to be sanitized.  What will be the respone of MLB?  Will they keep playing, or opt to play with 28 or 29 teams? Or 26 or 27?

 

 

 

You make a lot of assumptions on what I do .... but are probably right.... Yet, my daughter plays softball now and no teams or leagues have shut down for this yet. I saw her being outside and socialize was a big part of her development.

And, if 12 girls (or boys) can do it .... if Korea can do it ... if grocery stores can stay open with hundreds of people coming in everyday, spreading all their germs (my son would be working at one if he were a year older, I tried despite risk but he is only 15), and more importantly, hospital and doctor offices have stayed open (do you see them complaining - my wife isn’t) and now most importantly, hundred of thousand of school teachers come this fall ..... There are risks in life. If I was Carrasco’s wife, I am sure she is worried, if not pleading for him to hold out. Yet, for the others, there are more risky professions. But, ballplayers have better options to keep them safe (ordering takeout with delivery at every meal) than most people have. And note, I don’t think reporters will be in clubhouse, so things can be more spreadout with coaches elsewhere other than Tito (who is 2nd as most at risk behind Cookie). Once you are in a situation, you have so much control. If you are an extra player/pitcher, you can hang back and sit in stands till needed. There is a lot of ways to keep players safer than even the normal person who has to work as well. I have a friend with leukemia who chose to work at a manufacturing facility during the previous height of the outbreak in March/April.

I am going to assume there will be a stoppage to the season and a team may just opt out, if too many players are hit. Yet, mlb is doing everything they can to keep them as safe as possible while playing. I tell my daughter’s coach just to leave shin pads/chest protector out in sun for 10 min to disinfect for my daughter. MLB is changing balls after each play and BP balls need to sit for 5 days. My daughter gets one ball to pitch with (for each team) per game.


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DetDawg
(@detdawg)
Low-A dreamer
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 194
07/05/2020 10:52 am  

@petes999

I have no doubt that MLB is doing everything they can to minimize risks of players.  And, I believe all of the protocols in place have been negotiated with the MLBPA.  The protections afforded the participants are more regimented and high tech that what most everyone else in the country will be subject to.

I think you and I probably have different concepts of the risks involved in playing major league baseball.  But, that's ok.  It just means that you and I likely are making slightly different decisions day-to-day to stay safe.  We're not drones that all have the same opinions and make the same choices when faced with similar situations.


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